be being shaped by the memory of the holocaust and the politics of israel. we can find no to more interesting people to discuss this topic for many, many reasons. first, a former 3-term mayor of new york city, ed koch. [applause] people forget, i do not, but people forget that he actually started out in congress. so with the discussion that we are talking about, it's not merely about his days as america also, he, too, has run for congress and knows what that means. i think in his more recent you can think of him as a kingmaker in guiding the jewish vote. many people -- well, he may not agree to this, but he made many people think of him as a king maker of sorts of where the jewish vote is headed in that is another reason to have him. and he may disown the kingmaker title, but to some degree our next guest, congressman bob turner might say that the support of the mayor had given was in fact helpful. >> it was beyond helpful. was critical. >> all right. let's go back. a king maker. >> bob turner is in fact, a brooklyn congressman in his first term. very decent and likable man. very
